HP Mini 311 Benchmarked, ION = Must Have

[Chris]

Laptopmag had a chance to test out the HP Mini 311 and so far the results are very promising. The HP Mini 311 surpassed every other netbook that's been tested before. Here are some quick stats: PCMark 05 = 1,917 points (Nearly 500 points above the average) 3DMark06 = 1,386 points (That's 1200 points above the netbook [...]

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[ThisIsNot]

Too bad more companies won't be taking advantage of the Broadcom Crystal HD accelerator. I wonder how that would compare up against the Nvidia ION platform (it would probably be around the same but I wouldn't be surprised if ION surpassed it by a small margin). I guess we will see whenever an updated version of Flash (I believe Flash 10.1) comes out that starts supporting both the Nvidia ION and Broadcom Crystal HD accelerator.

The HP mini 311 uses a LE version of the ION chipset, divx9 and lower system bus speed along with XP. Can it really handle 1080p with h.264 like the HP website said? Would I need an hdcp monitor to go with the hdmi port? NVIDIA has said it is backing away from the chipset business with Intel for now, whatever that means.

I don't presently have any need for graphics expansion on a netbook or the larger screens more graphics provide. I'm quite happy with my Asus 901 doing traditional netbook tasks. I'm happy with my current Macs too. Good thing since Apple played an NVIDIA card in the Intel game. What will the new Macs look like if Intel is the only graphics option?

The market may be in a take it if it's offered stall but don't be hoping for a future.

Edit: I just looked at the $499 recommended setup of the mini 311 on the HP site. What is the Windows 7 option and the possibility of Intel VT on this chip?

[ThisIsNot]

The Nvidia ION platform (any iteration) can handle full 1080p mpeg-4 AVC (h.264), standard mpeg-4, VC-1, and mpeg-2 videos just fine. The GPU is capable of hardware acceleration for the playback of those video types. It is similar to what Intel does with their MHD 4500/X4500 IGP solutions, it is also similar to what Broadcom does with their Crystal HD accelerator. A single chip handles the video decoding. The main benefit that ION offers over both the Intel MHD 4500/X4500 IGP and Broadcom Crystal HD+Intel GMA 950 solutions is that the ION is more powerful. The ION is basically a Nvidia 9400M GPU that has been optimized for lower power consumption. Either way, it can handle full 1080p videos of those types. However, you need to run software that can pass off video processing to the hardware. This is where people run into trouble. Windows Media Player is not able to do this without some tweaking and downloading from community sites. You need software such as Cyberlink PowerDVD. Manufacturers normally provide software with their products to playback HD videos files. HP included a copy of ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre 2.2 with my HP Mini 110XP for 1080p playback wth the Broadcom Crystal HD accelerator. I know that the latest version of PowerDVD (9) and TotalMedia Theatre (3.0) can both pass video decoding off to Intel's hardware (included in either the 4500 MHD, 4500 HD, or X4500), Nvidia's chip included with their 9400M/ION GPU's/IGP's and above, and ATI's chip included in their entire HD line of GPU's/IGP's.

You will need an HDCP compliant monitor only if you were to play content that requires HDCP compliance. A non-HDCP monitor will be fine when playing back digital files (that don't contain DRM), games, and the general Windows environment. You will run into issues only if you were to hook a Blu-ray drive up to that netbook. Then you would need an HDCP compliant monitor to display the content.

I imagine that Apple computers wouldn't look all that different if Apple had gone with the GMA 4500 MHD/X4500 IGP solutions offered by Intel. In all honesty, the Nvidia 9400M really isn't all that powerful (it is actually only a little more powerful than Intel's 4500MHD/X4500 IGP). The Nvidia 9400M can handle Call Of Duty 4 at an extremely low resolution (640X480) with low details and no AA. Apple puts it in their MacBook line of products because it has hardware acceleration for the types of videos listed above and they have figured out how to really push the hardware in terms of efficiency. ALL of Apple's 7+ hour notebook run the Nvidia GeForce 9400M. They offer a couple of 15" and 17" configurations that pack the 9400M along with the 9600M. Those 7+ hour numbers are only when using the 9400M. Users are reporting that their battery numbers are getting reduced by about 2 hours when using the GeForce 9600M. That is why Apple is using that dual-GPU/IGP configuration. Most people will only ever need the 9400M and gamers don't purchase Apple computers as Mac OS X really isn't the best platform for gaming (that goes to Windows Vista/7 and to consoles).

Either way, things really wouldn't be all that different. Apple might have been able to push their 7 hour notebooks to 8 hours and their 8 hour 17" MacBook Pro to 9 hours if they had gone with the Intel 4500MHD/X4500 IGP. However, Apple has no need to go with an Intel IGP solution especially since they are getting 7-8 hours out of the Nvidia GeForce 9400M.

Windows 7 is not currently available as an option for the Mini 311. We will have to wait until after October 22nd to see how much extra it costs (I am going to guess that HP will charge an extra $30 for Windows 7 until the end of the year, I could be wrong). The Mini 311 works with either the Atom N270 or Atom N280 processors so it looks like Intel VT is out of the question. According to Intel's website, the common chipset used with netbooks (Intel 945 GME) is not VT compliant. The Intel 965 GM and GM45 chipsets are VT complaint but not the 945 GME. Then again, I don't think anyone would actually use Intel VT on a netbook.

Originally Posted by ThisIsNot

The Nvidia ION platform (any iteration) can handle full 1080p mpeg-4 AVC (h.264), standard mpeg-4, VC-1, and mpeg-2 videos just fine...The ION is basically a Nvidia 9400M GPU that has been optimized for lower power consumption. Either way, it can handle full 1080p videos of those types. However, you need to run software that can pass off video processing to the hardware.

That last sentence explains why I've read conflicting reports on the ION. The NVIDIA forum says the lastest driver will run h.264 just fine. Thanks for listing the software that will utilize the ION hardware.

You will need an HDCP compliant monitor only if you were to play content that requires HDCP compliance. A non-HDCP monitor will be fine when playing back digital files (that don't contain DRM), games, and the general Windows environment. You will run into issues only if you were to hook a Blu-ray drive up to that netbook. Then you would need an HDCP compliant monitor to display the content.

Your reviews got me interested in Blu-ray movies. My wife has a friend who keeps giving her DVDs as gifts but no Blu-ray. The reason I edited my previous post in this thread is, when I told my wife about the HP computer, she offered to buy it for me so I'm checking it out.

I imagine that Apple computers wouldn't look all that different if Apple had gone with the GMA 4500 MHD/X4500 IGP solutions offered by Intel.

I think with NVIDIA dropping work on Intel related chipsets, Apple will have to stay with the 9400M longer than planned or revert to Intel solutions. Without competition, Intel will squeeze some of those high profits off of Apple. The 9400M does not offer me enough of a reason to update my Mac hardware.

Windows 7 is not currently available as an option for the Mini 311.

Some users are already posting W7RC on the 311 and liking it. W7 doesn't work with my Asus 901 so I'm holding off on it. I probably would wait on the 311 until W7 is out. There is however something to say about staying with XP.

The Mini 311 works with either the Atom N270 or Atom N280 processors so it looks like Intel VT is out of the question.

Again, I was interested only because I have XP related software right now and thought I might need it - not that I know which software would actually need it. I'm just compiling my checklist of things to consider. I'll check that one in the off column.

Thanks for the kinds of details you post. I'm impressed with your knowledge of the netbook issues. Glad to see you on this forum.

[ThisIsNot]

Originally Posted by netbooking

That last sentence explains why I've read conflicting reports on the ION. The NVIDIA forum says the lastest driver will run h.264 just fine. Thanks for listing the software that will utilize the ION hardware.

Yeah, that is the main issue with any modern GPU/accelerator out there. You need specific software that can properly use the hardware. Many people think that they can use ANY software out there to play HD videos. I can't say that I blame them for thinking so. After all, companies aren't providing instructions on how to properly use the hardware.

Originally Posted by netbooking

Your reviews got me interested in Blu-ray movies. My wife has a friend who keeps giving her DVDs as gifts but no Blu-ray. The reason I edited my previous post in this thread is, when I told my wife about the HP computer, she offered to buy it for me so I'm checking it out.

I wouldn't purchase a netbook for Blu-ray playback especially since many companies (Samsung, Magnavox, and many others) are offering stand-alone Blu-ray players for less than $200. Being able to play Blu-ray movies on a netbook would be a bonus feature though. Then again, you would have to chock up about $200 for a decent external Blu-ray drive to playback these movies. Might as well just purchase a stand-alone player if you are really interested in Blu-ray movies.

Originally Posted by netbooking

I think with NVIDIA dropping work on Intel related chipsets, Apple will have to stay with the 9400M longer than planned or revert to Intel solutions. Without competition, Intel will squeeze some of those high profits off of Apple. The 9400M does not offer me enough of a reason to update my Mac hardware.

Probably. The 9400M isn't that bad but I don't see why Apple isn't offering something better. Even the 9600M is pretty dated by today's standards and Apple puts that in their $3000+ notebook. I would think that Apple would include more (like the 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTX 260M included with Alienware's/Dell's M17x notebook that also happens to be about $1300 less than the 17" MacBook Pro) for that much money.

Originally Posted by netbooking

Some users are already posting W7RC on the 311 and liking it. W7 doesn't work with my Asus 901 so I'm holding off on it. I probably would wait on the 311 until W7 is out. There is however something to say about staying with XP.

Windows 7 Ultimate runs smoothly on my HP Mini 110XP. So yeah, I can see how people are enjoying Windows 7 RC running smoothly on their Mini 311's. Waiting for the retailr release of Windows 7 might be smart. HP could potentially offer an XP powered Mini 311 for a lower price than it is at now. You could then pay $30 and get Windows 7 Home Premium from Microsoft (if you are a student). Then again, Windows XP has proven itself to be reliable for these past 8 years.

Originally Posted by netbooking

Again, I was interested only because I have XP related software right now and thought I might need it - not that I know which software would actually need it. I'm just compiling my checklist of things to consider. I'll check that one in the off column.

That may change once Windows 7 comes out. The nice thing about Windows 7 is that, from my experience, it doesn't have issues running Windows XP only compatible software. ArcSoft's TotalMedia Theatre 2.2 works only with Windows XP (as labeled) yet Windows 7 doesn't have any issues running it. The same holds true for all other software that I have run. I don't think you will want to take up even more space just to run Windows XP only software.

Originally Posted by netbooking

Thanks for the kinds of details you post. I'm impressed with your knowledge of the netbook issues. Glad to see you on this forum.

No problem. I conducted a few weeks worth of research back before I purchased my netbook. I wanted to make sure that I would be fine getting a Intel GMA 950 powered netbook. I wanted to make sure that the ION platform wasn't going to run circles around the GMA 950. Turns out that it really doesn't. ION will get used because Nvidia is pushing it and there is a bunch of hype surrounding it. Broadcom and Intel could easily do the same thing except that Nvidia seems to be spending more money than them.

[nouvelle_vague]

I'm trying to determine how well the blu ray playback is if you watch the movie on this netbook and its screen. I need a netbook and a portable blu ray player. This could kill two birds with one stone if I hook up the blu ray drive via USB to the netbook.

Laptopmag's review states:

"So what about high-def video playback? We tested the mettle of the Mini 311 by outputting a 1080p iTunes trailer (Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs) via HDMI from the system to a 32-inch Samsung HDTV. The Ion-powered netbook held up well, delivering satisfactory detail and great color. We saw only some instances of motion blur, but the clip took 30 seconds to cue up. "

So they are outputting the signal to an HDTV. I need to get an idea of what the playback will be on the netbook itself.

Any insight?

Thanks in advance.

[ThisIsNot]

Well, Blu-ray movies will look good on the Mini 311's screen but they are overkill. Blu-ray movies are mastered in 1080p and most of them have an overall average bitate of around 30-35Mbps for mpeg-4 AVC and VC-1 formats. The 13" screen on the Mini 311 is so small that a 2.5Mbps 720p video would look just as good. The 13" screen uses a resolution of 1366X768 which is just a little over 720p (1280X720). Anything larger than that will be scaled down.

I have the Mini 110XP which has a 10" 1366X768 LCD panel. I can definitely tell the difference between 480p and 720p content but it doesn't matter after that. Now, I can hook my netbook up to my projector and things will be really different as that goes up to 1080p (1920X1080).

You might as well purchase a low end notebook as it will cost you less (or about the same) and give you better performance. You can find notebooks with built-in Blu-ray ROMs for about $550, they have 15" screens as well (most of them at a resolution of 1366X768). You will end up spending $400 on an HP Mini 311 (or $375 on the HP Mini 110XP, that can handle Blu-ray movies if you configure it with the Broadcom Crystal HD accelerator) plus an additional $200 for a decent USB 2.0 Blu-ray ROM. Total costs will be up around $600, increase that to $630 if you want Windows 7 on the Mini 311.

Dell is selling some really affordable Inspiron 15 notebooks with built-in Blu-ray ROMs. You can also catch some good deals at Best Buy with Sony computers that have built-in Blu-ray ROMs. They will be selling a $600 model that can run circles around any netbook or net-top on the market, it will come with Windows 7 too.

[Haldi]

I have a HP311 running W7. I have yet to get a decoder combination that will decode mpeg2 from WTV or DVR-MS files without 100% CPU. So far the ancient NVIDIA PureVideo does it best, but it's still abysmal. It's pretty sad M$ can't figure out how to use HW acceleration or at least allow 3rd party decoders easily. I have yet to try it, but I'd hope playing H264 or VC-1 works better as that is what they hyped the ION chipset as being able to do.

[ThisIsNot]

What bitrate are these mpeg-2 videos encoded at? Additionally, are they actually mpeg-2 videos? Are the DVR-MS files wrapped in DRM?

Software such as CyberHome PowerDVD 9 works with the Nvidia ION. I believe that ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre HD 3 supports the ION as well. The key is finding the right software that will enable hardware acceleration. What software are you using to playback the files?